Showing posts with label group dynamics. Show all posts
Showing posts with label group dynamics. Show all posts

Monday, February 23, 2026

How to revive a failing choir (Part 2): deeper causes and hard truths

In Part 1, I looked at some of the more obvious reasons why choirs begin to falter: the impact of Covid, ageing membership, toxic behaviour, over-ambitious projects, and too many concerts.

In this second part, I want to explore some of the longer-term and less visible causes — the ones that creep in gradually or hide behind apparent success.

Monday, January 27, 2025

Want to get close to people quickly? Sing together!

We all know the many health benefits of singing together.

But did you know it’s also an excellent way of bonding a group of people together, even if you don’t know them?

Monday, November 11, 2024

Choir can feel like being back at school – and that’s not always a good thing

We all like to think our choirs are friendly spaces where everyone is equally welcome.

photo by theirhistory

But being in a choir can bring back all sorts of memories of our time at school. All the things we found difficult as children can come back to haunt us.

Monday, July 31, 2023

How to ask a singer to leave your choir

Very occasionally there comes a time when you will have to ask a singer to leave your choir.

photo by id-iom

What’s the best (and kindest) way to do this?

Monday, October 31, 2022

Working with an established group (who are set in their ways)

No matter how flexible and self-aware we think we are, inevitably we all end up becoming a bit set in our ways.

photo by Social Gabe

This can particularly apply to any choir or singing group who’ve been together for a long time. What happens when a new leader comes along and tries to change this?

Monday, December 13, 2021

How to deal with a toxic choir member

Very occasionally a singer may join your choir who seems to affect everyone negatively.

They are somehow ‘toxic’ and affect the whole choir. Here’s how you can deal with such a person.

Monday, June 28, 2021

Skills you’ll need to brush up when your choir rehearses again in person

Here in England, we’re limited to a maximum of six singers rehearsing indoors.

photo by allan harris

When restrictions are finally lifted (in three weeks we hope), many choral skills will have gone rusty over the last year or more.

Monday, August 17, 2020

Can an “all voices welcome” choir ever be totally inclusive?

Many choirs are open-access: they welcome all kinds of voices and don’t hold auditions.

Photo by Fabrice Florin

But is it still possible to keep everyone happy and be truly inclusive without making too many concessions?

Monday, July 20, 2020

Is a choir a family?

People join choirs for many different reasons. Whatever those reasons might be, a choir ends up being a small community.

In fact, some consider a choir as a kind of family. But what might that mean?

Monday, April 03, 2017

Why I don’t use name badges at my singing workshops

I’m just back from leading a singing weekend and one of the feedback comments was “It would be good to have name badges.”

name badge

I don’t use name badges at my singing weekends, nor in the choirs that I run. Here’s my reasoning.

Monday, September 12, 2016

Integrating new choir members: a guide for new singers, existing members and choir leaders

Most choirs take new singers on at the beginning of a season. Joining an established group can be quite scary and new singers need to find a way of catching up quickly.

130622-A-GP275-852

Here are some ideas for how best to integrate new members into your choir.

Sunday, February 16, 2014

Sunday, September 08, 2013

Fresh blood: the pros and cons of letting new singers join your choir

As choir starts back after a break, you might notice a few new faces in the ranks.

new recruits

Bringing in new recruits maintains the lifeblood of a choir, but what are the pros and cons?

Sunday, April 07, 2013

Why being a confident singer is not always a good thing in a choir

I’m all in favour of confident singers (see How to be a confident singer). The problem is there are two kinds and one of them can be disruptive in a choir.

loud
photo by truu

There are confident singers who know what they’re doing; and there are those who don’t. It’s the latter who can cause real difficulties.

Sunday, May 20, 2012

There's always one! – coping with different singing abilities in a small group

Sometimes in a small group there is just one person out of step with everyone else.

odd one out - poppy

Photo by Trish Steel

In a large choir, it’s not too much of a problem, but the smaller the group, the more noticeable it is. How can we deal with this?

Sunday, October 31, 2010

A choir is a shining example of the perfect community

Last weekend I ran a singing workshop for 25 strangers. As always everyone worked well together (no prima donnas!) and we produced a wonderful sound at the end of the day.

working together
Working together by lumax

I do workshops like this so often that I take it for granted. But somebody came up to me at the end and reminded me how impressive it is that a group of people can come together for one day and produce such amazing results. That got me thinking about how singing groups and choirs are a model of how communities should work together.

A choir is basically a team of individuals all working towards a common goal. Singing in a choir is a great leveller. What matters is the part you sing, not whether you’re rich or poor, black or white, male or female, young or old. As such, a choir can be seen as a shining example of how a community can work together.

A choir is a microcosm of the real world and choral singing can be seen as a metaphor for life itself.

how it should work

  • no room for egos – to participate fully in harmony singing, you can’t be a prima donna
  • everyone has their part to play – even the director is a cog in the machine
  • everyone is equally important – without every single individual, the thing wouldn’t work
  • co-operation is the only way – if people don’t work as a team, there will be no end result
  • trust and support your fellow singers – you have responsibility for yourself but at the same time total trust and dependency on others – otherwise no harmonies!
  • strength in numbers – but still all individuals
  • a single purpose – apparently having a focus or purpose on something outside oneself brings happiness 

things can go wrong

But just as in real life, things can go wrong. Not every choir is perfect

  • dictators – the leader might be a bit of a fascist
  • selfishness – certain singers can be too selfish and not support others
  • judgment – more experienced singers end up looking down on newcomers
  • blocking – it only takes a few individuals with strong views to block ideas that might suit the choir better as a whole 

why not aim for the best?

I really don’t understand why some choirs end up being less than perfect. It’s just so much easier to be supportive, encouraging, work together, selfless, trusting, etc. It takes much more energy to be fearful, angry, egotistical, disruptive, obstructive and selfish.

I’ve been very lucky in that pretty much all the singing workshops and choirs I’ve ever run have ended up being excellent examples of how communities should work. My theory is that choral singing attracts the right kind of people. If an ego is too big, then solo singing becomes more attractive. If a person is too disruptive, then they will never get to make beautiful music so end up leaving.

So let’s raise a glass to all those fantastic model choirs out there! I do hope yours is one of them. Do drop by and tell us all about it.



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Chris Rowbury


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Sunday, October 17, 2010

How to deal with problems in a small chorus

Question This post is part of a series of occasional Questions and Answers. Just use the contact form if you want to submit a question.

A choir leader asks:

“I would very much appreciate your response to something that has happened to me with a small group that I started. I have had my 35 member chorus for some years, but a couple of years ago I wanted to do something with better singers, so I auditioned a group of singers to form an eight-person a cappella group.  We have sung together for two years, but now it seems now that it has all fallen apart.

The social dynamics started to take over the group instead of the singing. Also there was a kind of split in the group – with some people wanting to become more of a professional a cappella group and some people not being able to put that kind of time in. What I was imagining was a kind of a small choral group. Do you have any thoughts to share?”

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt! There are no easy answers, but I outline 12 ideas below that I think are very important.

When you’re working in a small group, any differences (musical or social) are magnified. There is nowhere to hide!

Depending on who forms the group, there is often a mismatch in what people want the group to be and how they expect it to develop. This is why you often hear of pop bands breaking up due to “artistic differences”. It is very rare for a group of people to come together and share exactly the same vision for a group. If you have a very small group – say four – it may be possible if you’re lucky. But with eight it’s very unlikely.

Like you, I have started several small groups over the years expecting it to turn magically into some amazingly cohesive group of singers all on the same wavelength. It hasn’t happened so far.

The first time I did it, I made the mistake of asking people to self-select (rather than auditioning). I soon realised that people’s self-awareness and opinion of their own abilities far outstrips the reality of what they can actually do. I had to ask some people to leave the group – which was rather painful.

I was left with six singers and I managed to knock them into shape and we ended up making a reasonable sound. However, after a while I realised that I was in exactly the same role as I had with the bigger chorus: teacher, arranger, song-finder, conductor, etc. I had imagined the smaller group would be more of a peer group and we would all share the running, but it wasn’t to be.

I also found myself having to deal with weird dynamics within the group. Sometimes there was am air of dread in rehearsals with people not wanting to talk to each other. I sometimes felt that the group could have done with some kind of family therapy!

I disbanded the group, but three of us (more or less peers) stayed together. I still did most of the sourcing and arranging, but it started to feel a little more equal. But after a while I realised that we all wanted different things from the group so I left. The other two have carried on.

Finally I started an all-women group of 12 singers for which I auditioned. I raised the bar considerably (some of the singers were already in my larger chorus) and really put them through their paces. I cranked up the difficulty of the repertoire, made demands on performance standards, spent a lot of time getting the ensemble to gel, and made it very clear that if somebody didn’t pull their weight, they were out.

In the end, the ensemble really came together and performed to a very high standard. Eventually I stopped conducting them in performances (see Does your choir really need a conductor?) and finally I left the group, encouraging them to continue on their own – which they have done successfully.

From all these experiences I have learnt the following:

  • be clear what you want – if you start a group on your own you must have a clear idea of what you want it to be before you start.
  • you’re on your own – if you do decide to start a group yourself, don’t expect help or support from the others. You’re in charge. People like to follow and don’t like responsibility.
  • it’s a vision thing – people will sign up to your vision. If they don’t like it, they can leave. Leading or starting a group on your own is not democratic.
  • be specific about who can join – decide what the entry requirements to join the group will be and stick to them (be consistent). If you decide to audition, be very clear about what you’re looking for.
  • groups need consensus – if a bunch of you decide to form a group together, talk a lot about it beforehand to make sure you all have the same vision, aims and ambitions.
  • ambitions will change – the direction of the group may well change over time. Allow it to, but keep talking so you’re all on the same page. Don’t make assumptions.
  • you can’t create by committee! – even if you’ve started the group as a bunch of friends, it’s always good to have one individual in charge. You could take turns at leading each rehearsal or allocate clearly defined roles to each person.
  • how to fire people – have clear rules about when someone can be asked to leave and enforce them. Be fair and apply the rules equally to everyone in the group.
  • rehearsals need to be professional – they are not social events. Don’t let personal issues creep in. Socialise before or after the session, don’t try to deal with personal stuff in rehearsal.
  • can new people join? – inevitably people will leave over time. Now that you have a group that gels, how easy is it to introduce new members? Will the entry requirements be the same? Make sure you think it through and discuss with the rest of the group.
  • the group is more than the individual members – it will develop an identity of its own. So much so, that it will eventually be possible for all the founder members to leave and the group continue.
  • be clear what you want – I can’t emphasise this enough. If you start a group off with only a vague idea, then frustration and confusion will inevitably follow.

Have any of you tried to start a small chorus? What kinds of problems have you come across? Are there any major points that I’ve left out? Do drop by and leave a comment.

 

Chris Rowbury's website: chrisrowbury.com

 

Wednesday, May 19, 2010

How mixed choirs are different to single-sex choirs

This is inspired by a post from January 2007 about Minor Chords, the first women’s ensemble I ran.

Vicoria Choir

Victoria Choir, Uganda by Adamesmith

How do mixed choirs and single-sex choirs differ, if at all? I was partly inspired to write this by an article on ChoralNet (Are women’s choirs different?). There are clearly some differences, but are they important and does one kind of choir have an advantage over the other?

women’s groups

In 2001 I set up a women’s singing ensemble called Minor Chords (a weak pun based on the fact that all members are also in the bigger choir Woven Chords). The group consisted of 12 women who had the singing skills and commitment to meet alternate Saturdays for three hours to tackle more complex and difficult material than the main choir.

I didn’t hold formal auditions, but required members to be able to hold a part on their own. Over the years the standard of the group rose considerably and it became harder and harder to find suitable new material which was sufficiently challenging.

In 2007 I decided I wanted to raise the bar even higher and work with a group to develop performance skills rather than simply teaching songs each session. I disbanded Minor Chords and formed a new group (by audition this time) called Vox Mondiale. It was still a women-only group.

Over the next couple of years I helped develop the group’s confidence and performing skills. Last year I took off the training wheels and handed over the group to its members to run without me.

men’s groups

In 2004 I decided to run a men-only workshop in an attempt to get more blokes singing. Over the next few years this became an annual fixture attracting between 20 and 40 men each year. It was a great opportunity to do some of those real blokey songs from Georgia mixed with a few sea shanties, chain gang songs and songs from other male traditions such as Corsica and South Africa.

I’ve also been involved in a couple of workshops where we’ve invited both men and women, but then split into gender groups to learn songs separately. We began with a joint warm up and taught a song to everyone, then split up for the rest of the day. At the end of the workshop the women sang what they’d learnt to the men, and vice versa.

differences

Over the years I have noticed certain differences when running a men-only or women-only workshop.

When it’s men-only, there tends not to be any chit chat when lunch is being prepared (and no chat whilst songs are being learnt either!). One year a bloke who usually sings with a mixed choir pointed this out: “Quiet, isn’t it?”. The savoury course tends to be pies and quiches bought from Morrison's, whereas the sweet course is home-made cakes (made by the men themselves). Washing up and tidying up is quick and efficient.

With women-only groups there is plenty of animated conversation during breaks. In fact, it’s hard to get them back after tea breaks! There were always lots of cakes in the break when I used to run Vox Mondiale. In fact, I think it became a little bit competitive and the singing was maybe just an excuse to come and eat cake!

In a women’s workshop, the savoury course for lunch tends to be home-made healthy salads, etc. whereas the sweet course is almost always shop-bought gateaux and cheesecakes. Washing up is effective, but takes time (with all the chat going on).

Just my observations!

the origins of single-sex groups

In the Balkans it is typical for girls to form close friendships at school from a very early age. They will sing together with their friends in groups that will sometimes last a lifetime. Imagine how well they get to know each other’s voices and abilities!

Male groups of singers tend to be based around occupation (in Britain at least): coal miners, police, fishermen, etc.

mixed groups

All my community choirs have been mixed (when I took over Woven Chords it was women-only because the previous director thought men were too loud and disruptive!). Although men have always been in the minority.

There is nothing really to compare with a full-on four part (SATB) arrangement of a song with a meaty bass part. It’s nice to vary the diet every now and then so we do occasionally slip in a women-only or men-only song.

advantages

... of being in a mixed choir:

  • you can do full-on four part arrangements
  • it’s great to have the different male and female vocal qualities in the mix
  • some people don’t like being in single-sex groups
  • the men can impress the women with their voices and the women can impress the men
  • men’s focus and discipline can be balanced with women’s sociability to make for a healthy mix

... of being in a single-sex group

  • the voices blend much better
  • there is just one dynamic within the group
  • some people prefer to be in a single-sex group (e.g. some men are frightened of women!)
  • you can specialise in a particular type of singing/ music

disadvantages

... of being in a mixed choir:

  • there can be a clash of cultures – the way men and women approach things is different
  • male and female tenors sound quite different
  • men can be loud and overbearing which doesn’t help with overall sound balance
  • there is possibly a different learning style for men and women

... of being in a single-sex group

  • it’s hard to make four-part arrangements for equal voices without it being close harmony
  • women’s songs miss out on a proper bass part, and men’s songs don’t have soaring high voices on the top
  • it can be too much of the same thing – hard to have variety when you’ve only one voice type to play with

what flavour of leader?

Does the gender of the choir or workshop leader make a difference?

Bill Henderson of the Forres Big Choir reckons that the reason they have roughly 50% men in their mixed choir is that they have a male and a female leader.

Simon said that although his choir was lead by a husband and wife team, the husband made jokes at the men’s expense whilst the wife was more supportive and encouraging.

When the choir leader is of a different gender to the singer, there can be problems with pitching and giving starting notes (see Singing the same note – differently!). This can easily be overcome though. Women in my choir are used to automatically singing an octave higher than the note I give out. But when Michael Harper came to give a workshop (he’s a respected counter tenor) he gave the notes at pitch and the women freaked out when they couldn’t sing an octave higher than him!

what’s your experience?

Have you had experience of being in (or leading) both a mixed choir and a single-sex choir? Did you notice any differences? Does the gender of the choir leader make a difference? Can you think of any other issues that I’ve left out? Do drop by and leave a comment.

 

Chris Rowbury's website: chrisrowbury.com

Wednesday, May 12, 2010

How similar choirs can be so different

This is a revised version of a post which first appeared as Vive la différence! in April 2007.

Over the years I have run choirs and singing groups all based on the same principles, but in different locations. The general mix of genders, ages, backgrounds, etc. tends to be very similar.

choir and reverse

Yet each group ends up with a very distinct personality of its own.

fitting the song to the group

I have run three adult community choirs (WorldSong, Global Harmony and Woven Chords) as well as four smaller singing groups (Minor Chords, C-Section, Vox Mondiale and Foot and Mouth voice-theatre). In each case I have had to think carefully when choosing which songs to do. It’s great to be able to do big, lush arrangements with an 80-piece choir, but it’s just as wonderful to be able to do more subtle, quieter material with just 12 voices or less.

The choice is made more difficult when I run a one-day singing workshop as I usually have no idea how many people will turn up, nor what the male/ female mix will be. I usually assume that we won’t have many blokes, so I always adapt the tenor line so women can sing it. However, at one workshop a couple of years ago about half the group (20 or so) turned out to be men! I had some quick re-arranging to do.

but we don’t like those songs!

What I have found really surprising though is the difference in flavour of the community choirs I have run. Each of the choirs have been mixed and of roughly the same size and composition. They were all founded on the same principles (i.e. that anyone can join regardless of experience and all songs are taught by ear), covered the same sort of repertoire, and met for the same length of time each week on a weekday evening from 7.30pm. They also each ended up being a performing choir.

Yet each choir has its own distinct personality and dynamics.

Some songs work really well with one choir, but not with another. One choir might be able to cope with a tricky rhythm or harmony, yet another choir (which perhaps has been going for longer) finds it just too difficult. One choir may love folk songs whilst another may hate them.

Over time I started to realise which songs would appeal to which choir. So when I am sourcing material, it is usually quite obvious which choir I will teach a particular song to – regardless of mix of voices or size – just because that choir will appreciate it and enjoy it more. Some songs which have not worked with one choir, will come alive with another.

where does group identity come from?

Why is this? How come two groups of adults formed in exactly the same way can end up having such a different group personality? The only difference being the geographical location!

The gender and age mix of each choir is very similar; the tastes of the singers is similar (i.e. they’re all attracted to the kind of repertoire I offer – generally world music in unaccompanied harmony); everyone enjoys the way that I teach and is now very much used to it; there is the same mix of members who have been with the choir for some time together with people who have joined this term. So why the difference?

Can the demographic of a town account for such a different group dynamic? Or is it that within a choir, a very small group of individuals can have a big effect on the larger group?

peer group pressure

I remember once doing a theatre show which was very funny (all audiences so far had laughed a lot each time we’d performed the show), yet one night we got hardly a titter. There must have been about 40 people in the (capacity) audience (it was a very small venue!), yet hardly any audible laughs.

When we talked to some friends about it afterwards, they said that although they had found the show very funny, they had felt that the atmosphere in the room somehow meant that they couldn’t laugh out loud.

Similarly, when we played to around 120 people at a Christmas concert one year, we walked on stage to complete silence! Not a single person clapped. It was as if they had all discussed it beforehand and come to an agreement. And another time performing in a church, nobody clapped after the songs until I pointed out that it was allowed!

I find group dynamics endlessly fascinating. It may be that when I have tried to blame it on the weather, it was simply the group dynamic having a strong effect on one particular evening.

I wonder how many individuals it takes to affect a large group? Can one person influence a whole choir or does it need a small group? Are local demographics that strong to make a difference?

What do you think? Do drop by and leave a comment. I always enjoy hearing what you have to say.

how do single sex choirs differ from mixed choirs?

Following on from my recent posts on men and singing, next week I’ll be writing about my experience with women’s singing groups. How do they differ from men’s groups, and how do single sex groups differ from mixed choirs?

 

Chris Rowbury's website: chrisrowbury.com

Sunday, April 11, 2010

Over-rehearsed or under-prepared: which is better?

I don’t like rehearsing. I’d much rather turn up on the day, trust the singers I’m working with and just busk it.

bad singing Tenors

                photo by Prestwick                             photo by ~BC~

But some people love to rehearse. They worry away at a song for months until they feel that they’ve perfected it.

Neither of these extremes seem to be ideal, but which is better?

under-prepared?

I really, really don’t like rehearsing. Neither as a singer nor a choir leader. I get bored easily. Once a song is pretty much up and running, I’m done and want to move onto the next thing.

Personally, if I go over something too many times it becomes stale. Sometimes it even gets worse!

I used to play squash from time to time. When I first went out on the court after not playing for a while, I was really quite good. But if I ended up playing several days in a row, I got gradually worse. I work very much from instinct and if I repeat something too many times, I become analytical which gets in the way.

Similarly the choir might have been having trouble getting a song right. We rehearse it week after week and it just doesn’t gel. Then we have the summer break. First week back we give the song one more try and it’s perfect!

The same thing’s at work here: if you worry away at something too much, your intellect gets in the way and stops you from doing it well. Rather like the amateur golfer who is asked to analyse their swing. As soon as they focus on what they’re doing, it all goes wrong.

I’d much rather rehearse just enough then leave the rest up to a mutual trust of the other singers and their musicianship, and being focused and in the moment.

The positive aspects of this approach are that the performance can be:

  • fresh and new – as if for the first time
  • exciting and alive
  • with a sense of total focus (and slight danger!)

The negative aspects are that it can end up being:

  • unpolished and rough round the edges
  • amateurish
  • full of mistakes
  • a display of fearful and under-confident singers

over-rehearsed?

Some people like to rehearse a lot and go over a song many times. They feel that this in-depth treatment improves their understanding and performance of the song and also enables the singers in the group to get to know each other better and hence work better together.

The positive aspects of this approach are that:

  • everyone always knows exactly what they’re doing
  • subtle nuances and depths of songs can be brought out
  • the singers can be playful with the song and each other because they feel totally secure with the material

The negative aspects can be that:

  • the performance can feel tired and uninspired as if the singers are just going through the motions
  • the song is too polished and soulless
  • the singers appear to be over-confident and arrogant

which do you prefer?

I’ve nailed my colours to the mast, but what about you? I’m of the opinion that, like seasoned session musicians, you can work with complete strangers after just a few rehearsals as long as you trust their musical abilities.

Do let me know which of these two camps you belong to. Or maybe there’s a middle way that I’ve not thought of.

specialists vs. generalists

Following on from this topic, in next week’s  post I’m going to look at the notion that people are either specialists (focusing in depth on just one thing) or generalists (having a wide range of interests and influences) and what effect this has on the choirs they lead or the singing they do.

 

Chris Rowbury's website: chrisrowbury.com